I'm here to help you make your packaging more sustainable! Reach out today and I'll get back to you asap.
This podcast is an independent production and the podcast production is an original work of the author. All rights of ownership and reproduction are retained—copyright 2022.
I'm here to help you make your packaging more sustainable! Reach out today and I'll get back to you asap.
This podcast is an independent production and the podcast production is an original work of the author. All rights of ownership and reproduction are retained—copyright 2022.
Cory Connors:
Welcome to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors. Today's guest is Julia Goldstein, the founder and owner of J L F G Communications. How are you, Julia? I'm doing great, thanks. Good, It's it's an honor to talk to you, and I'm excited to hear about your background. First l
Julia Goldstein:
let's start there. I am a materials geek. I have been fascinated by engineered materials ever since I was an undergrad. I, my undergrad degree is in general engineering, which means I took all kinds of different types of engineering courses and one of those was intro to material science and I just said, this is fascinating. And it was so fascinating to me that I decided to earn a PhD in material science.
Cory Connors:
Oh, Dr. Julia Goldstein. Yes. Yes. Thank
Julia Goldstein:
you. And, my research was on lead free solders, and this was back when, I'll date myself here, that the EU was just talking about the idea of they might need to remove lead from solders in electronics. Wow. Yeah, and I started my career as a process development engineer in semiconductor packaging. So to translate that, what that means is, well, a lot of people now are more aware of the semiconductor industry because there's all these silicon chips in, right? Our, phones, our laptops, our cars, our appliances at home, everywhere. These chips need to be attached to a base. And they need to be protected from the environment and they need to make electrical connection to other things on the board. And that's what packaging is all about. And I was about, I was working on helping develop those processes.
Cory Connors:
Fascinating. That's amazing. Well done. Yes. So and, that's led you to a new start, your own company. Can you tell us what, your communications company does?
Julia Goldstein:
Yeah. So again, it was. It's been an interesting journey because I spent a decade in, to some degree in journalism. I don't have any degrees in journalism, but I ended up, I was always the engineer who would write. I ended up working for trade magazines in the semiconductor industry, and later I was writing for business magazines. I decided to work more directly with companies and helping them tell their stories. And learned all about writing white papers and blog posts and articles that appeared in those trade journals that I used to work for in an editorial capacity. It's really helpful to understand both sides of things, what it looks like from the editor's viewpoint. Very true. Yeah. And another thing is I've always loved to teach. And that's what's driving me more towards saying I, when I originally founded my company, it was really focused on content writing. And now, in the last couple years, expanding more into. Giving workshops and corporate training that really help companies understand that strategy. Whether it's thinking about how they can incorporate better sustainability into the design of their products or how they can communicate what they're doing without throughout their company, in their industry. There's a lot of tricky things around messaging. And I love explaining stuff to people, asking good questions, and. Helping them make changes that are gonna have a positive effect on their industry and society.
Cory Connors:
Wow. So not only are you educating your, actually training companies how to be more sustainable, is that what I'm hearing? I'm,
Julia Goldstein:
I see myself as a guide and some of it is about just building awareness there. Is a lot of information floating around. There are a lot of misconceptions. People maybe think they understand certain terms and certain ways of doing things, and they haven't really thought about all the ramifications or very true. What is the best avenue to pursue? And they know their company better than I do. I'm not gonna come in and say, oh yeah, you should do X, Y, Z. I'm gonna come in and talk to them. Ask the questions that get them thinking about things differently and realizing what they can do.
Cory Connors:
That is the right approach in my opinion as a consultative salesperson. For 20 years, I, that's what I've done, and that is in, my opinion, worked very, well. And I can, we can prove that through many stories, but I. If you go in and you say, this is what you have to do before you get the information from the company as to their challenges and as to their goals and help them define their goals it, it won't be as successful as the, method that you've laid out there. So, well, well done for you.
Julia Goldstein:
Thank you. It's never one size fits all, and people sometimes don't like to hear that. The answer is, it depends, which, who knows. I may be saying some of that to you as we continue.
Cory Connors:
Well, honestly, I say that quite a bit and I think when somebody has a definitive answer to certain questions it's, not always accurate. And. So oftentimes I'll get asked what's the most sustainable packaging? And it's like, well, that depends. And if, anybody says, well, this is the most sustainable packaging and be, period, because I know, then I, tend to, not believe that person all the time. So
Julia Goldstein:
sometimes they have a vested interest in a certain, yeah.
Cory Connors:
So let's talk a little bit about Challenges companies face in regards to sustainable packaging when you consult with them?
Julia Goldstein:
Yes. I think that there's a lot of companies that they want to do the right thing. They, some of the difficulties, again, depending on what they're making and how they're packaging it, there could be some. Easy answers, and again, which may or may not really be better in the long run. Right. I think, I mean, I'm just thinking of an example, and this isn't really packaging exactly, but shipping crates or fruits and vegetables. They could be made of cardboard, wood, or plastic, and you think of, okay, what material is better from a sustainability point of view? You have to also look not just at what does it take to make that crate? How many times is it gonna be used? Right? And when you do the whole lifecycle analysis, the plastic comes out ahead in that point, in that view. And that is assuming you're using it a hundred times or hundreds of times versus the other ones that break down. And then that's why it really needs a complete. Look at things, and I think one of the really big challenges that we face is when we're talking about disposable packaging pa, the product comes in kind of some kind of packaging to protect it as it, but you know, from when it leaves the factory to when it's in the customer's hands, right? And then the customer opens it up and discards the packaging, or hopefully recycles the one that's recyclable in the right way, which again is another tricky thing. Right. Companies don't always know what their customers are gonna do. The customers don't always know what to do with the stuff. Yeah. And, there's some there's misleading things. Companies also face cost pressures. They are worried about their margins and say, if I switch to this packaging, that I believe is a better. Answer. Yeah. Environmentally it's gonna cost 20%, 50% more. I don't depending on the packaging, I've made up those numbers. It's gonna cost more. How do they make it worth it? Or I can get a hundred or a thousand of them. I need half a million every however long. Yeah. The supplies
Cory Connors:
aren't there. That's an interesting point. I, interviewed a couple companies in, Paris at Paris Packaging Week that were big companies like L'Oreal and Niya. And they said exactly that same thing. Somebody can come to us with this wonderful packaging material that's totally sustainable and it's a hundred percent renewable or recyclable or whatever the case may be, but we need 10 million of them. And they can only produce 10,000. And they haven't scaled the technology yet. So these are some of the things that, that the larger companies are facing. And you're exactly right. What do you do? Well, you consider all options, but you have to do something that's scalable for your product.
Julia Goldstein:
Yeah. And again, and that's why companies may roll it out in phases. Yeah. I think it's also ex important for them to explain that. Because if they're highlighting, Ooh, look, this sustainable packaging for our new product, whatever their product is called. Right, right. Our, Eco 5,000, it comes in this great sustainable packaging and the customer's thinking, yeah, but what about all that other stuff that you make that comes in the same old, annoying blister pack. Plastic packaging that we hate. Why can't you make all of it like this packaging for the Eco 5,000? And if the company doesn't say then it just, again, sounds like greenwashing, they're promoting this, but Yeah. Really they're packaging so much of their other stuff in a frustrating and not environmentally friendly way. Yeah. If they can explain, well, we would love to package all our products this way. Here's what we're facing. And again, that's not what you're blatantly just telling every customer, but the information is there. And they can find it. It may be in blog posts, it may be in inserts. It may be different ways to say, we understand we would like to do this better. And I've sometimes talked to companies, okay, you are, you've achieved 70%. Of this, why not a hundred percent? Often it is around the availability. In some cases it's performance. If you use a hundred percent recycled material, you might not be able to get the strength and durability other properties that you need. Right. So there's, a
Cory Connors:
balance there. There's a real dilemma too, of. Companies wanting to try new things, and then companies being accused of, Hey, look over here. We're doing one thing really well and it's really sustainable. Check us out. This is amazing. But what about everything else? And I think this is a good point that people need to understand as a, as consumers is be patient. And look at the big picture and as companies that are putting this material out there, work with a company like, like Julia's and, get the message out there that, hey, this is what we're doing and work with us as as we try new things. Is that kind of the point you're
Julia Goldstein:
saying? Yeah. I mean, and it's, I think just admitting that you're on this journey and. Again, a lot of it is really figuring out where you're going internally first. If you're, if inside you're just kind of trying some random thing and seeing if it works, then it's gonna be really hard to have a consistent, understandable message for the customer. Yeah. Whereas if you've really figured out how this particular product line, this new packaging, how it's part of your overall long-term strategy, and you've actually got that all figured out, it's much easier to tell people about it.
Cory Connors:
Yeah. Yes. That's a great point. Thank you. Well said. What does a very positive future with sustainability and focus look like to you?
Julia Goldstein:
There are a lot of aspects to it. If I think of a vision of what is possible, I would like to see all sorts of. Manufacturing industries, and I define manufacturing broadly as companies that are making some type of physical product. Whether that product is sold directly to individuals or it's part of something else that is sold to another company that's gonna make something that's gonna go on the market. Right. Is I want all of them to really think about how they can incorporate sustainability. And so a vision is, excuse me. A vision is that it goes beyond buzzwords. Yeah. Or a lot of these little things that tend to be sometimes feel good measures. Saying we're not handing out plastic water bottles at our events anymore. We have a big cooler and we people bring their cups, or we have a few. Washable, reusable, branded cups in for guests. That's nice. Yeah. If you, but are you looking at your overall operations and your whole supply chain up and down? Everything that it's, it is part of the impression that you give and there may, and maybe it's, there are some things like that are easy. Relatively easy to implement. And that's kind of good. And what I envision though, is really going deeper and asking some difficult questions. And in some cases that may mean phasing out some product lines, right. And making some switches. And it's not gonna happen instantly. But if companies really think about it, and I want the ones who are doing it well to share generously. Because their peers, even their competitors can learn, and it's really best to share all these. So the example of, we can't get 10 million of this right? Well, if companies work together to transform an entire industry, that provides an opportunity for the suppliers that are making those better packaging options. To realize, oh, we have a pipeline we can invest in expanding our capabilities and our volumes because we can trust that it just isn't this one time thing that the industry is shifting, and then it's a real opportunity for them. But the other thing I think, also that I would like to see is that sometimes the best packaging is no packaging at all. Yeah.
Cory Connors:
Yeah. And that's a harsh reality for a lot of packaging companies. Like, like mine is maybe the most sustainable option is no packaging at all for this, kind of an item. And how do we explain that to our customers? How do we help'em out like that? Very good point. Yeah. Well thank you so much Julia, for making some time for this. What's the best way for people to get in touch with you?
Julia Goldstein:
People can contact me via my website. Okay. With jlf goldstein.com/contact has a contact form and a link to schedule a chat if you have questions with me and you want to find out more.
Cory Connors:
Well, thanks, Julia. This has been great, and thank you Lances Aurora for sponsoring this podcast. If you're listening, make sure you subscribe so you don't miss the next episode. Stay tuned for more. Thank you.